Ben Rhodes was 29 when he went to work for Barack Obama in the White House. In his role as Deputy National Security Advisor, Rhodes helped to negotiate the Iran nuclear deal and the opening to Cuba, only to see Donald Trump tear down those policies. Then Rhodes traveled to Hungary, Russia and China to look at governments that promote nationalism. His book, After the Fall, examines how the U.S. might have contributed to this rightward tilt. I talk to Ben Rhodes about reinvention, global despair and what the road ahead might look like.